Independent Baptist Connection
Dear Katherine...
The following letter appeared in rense.com in the Henrry Makow column. While it isn't my practice to address angry letters, so many common views were expressed in this letter that deal with "where we live" today, I thought someone might benefit from an answer from the biblical point of view.
Most church members aren't aware of some of the things that happen "behind the scenes" in a church during the week. This isn't intended as either a condemnation or a defense of any parties involved. It's more of an examination of a few of the issues some of the well meaning believers in our world face on a daily basis. As far as I know, nothing here is copyrighted.
First come the highlights of Katherine's letter and then come a few thoughts about what we need to know about the other side of the story. What would YOU do in a case like this?
Most church members aren't aware of some of the things that happen "behind the scenes" in a church during the week. This isn't intended as either a condemnation or a defense of any parties involved. It's more of an examination of a few of the issues some of the well meaning believers in our world face on a daily basis. As far as I know, nothing here is copyrighted.
First come the highlights of Katherine's letter and then come a few thoughts about what we need to know about the other side of the story. What would YOU do in a case like this?
And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
-Revelations 18:4
I'm a woman, in my early fifties…
I have never been against churches; just indifferent. I never felt they were important, at all. But, I now understand that these places are not the way to go because they do all things the exact opposite of what God desires.
A few days after I first realized and believed God manifested Himself as a Man, Lord Jesus Christ, people were telling me I had to go find a church. Though I was just as indifferent to churches as it gets, (not hostile), I realized the only reason I really wanted to find a church was to testify to them as to what's really going on with this world and today's church; false wars, false worship etc. etc. My longing was for all of us to realize this: it is futile to look to and depend on mankind for anything what-so-ever. Look to God for all of your spiritual teaching. By the way, we can't even blink an eye without God.
The first church I chose was a Baptist church. At the time, through watching news and listening to those around me, I realized Terri (Schiavo’s) ordeal didn't register much at all with many Christians locally and nation-wide. I wanted to understand why there was this incredible deficit of understanding and compassion? I wanted to give them information on what really happened to Terri (Schiavo).
When this particular pastor and I first met, this is what he said to me: "if you have any problems at all, don't come to me. I'm not that kind of pastor." I was not shocked but I was still amazed.
I decided to listen to one of his sermons. He sure sounded good and moved on the stage well. He taught his congregation typical false teachings; pre-trib rapture, going to war in God's Name, etc., etc. and they clung to every word.
Later on, I dropped off Scripture refuting everything he taught to "his" sheep. One of his Bible teachers accepted the verses; the pastor wasn't in.
A few days later, I received a phone call from the pastor. He told me that "if I ever set foot on his property, ("his" church), he would call the police and have me arrested. That I was going against his doctrine."
These experiences with the 1st church were just a small beginning.
I came across a couple walking down an interstate each pushing a mountain bike with a large 'basket on wheels' filled with possessions. On the back of the second basket was a huge cardboard sign that read Hope in Jesus. I u-turned for two reasons.
#1 These two people were obviously stranded.
#2 I was curious because of their sign.
I found out after speaking with them that their van's motor had burned out. They were in their mid-sixties, had eight bucks to their name and the wife was ill. They were walking to Ca. I wanted to assist them and I decided to do this exactly as the early Christians in the Book of Acts would have done.
I would go into town to visit various churches and tell each the entire story of this couple not leaving out a detail. I would then ask for donations to give to this couple. I also decided not to tell this couple what I'd be doing but that I would definitely be back to see them. I suggested to them, that in the meantime, they might write on their sign, 'COULD USE A RIDE'. They told me they would do that. I gave to them what I had in my wallet. I was not working at the time. The only reason I mention this is not because I want to be thought of as "wow" isn't she great! But only to illustrate that I put into practice what I've learned from God. I really cringe to think I'd ever resort to bragging. Matthew 6:3-4.
Here the results of searching for God's Called out people:
The first church, quite a large church, donated out of petty cash. I was happy that they did donate!
At the second church, the secretary asked me if I was a member of their church. I told I was not. She refused my request without consulting with the pastor. I asked her if she would please call the pastor. She stated that he was unavailable. I asked her if she would please donate to help this couple. She refused. She then asked me: "what if you return to these people and they're not there? I simply told her : I'll bring back your money to you. She refused for the final time. I told her as I was leaving that it was people like her and her church that cause many to run away from God. And did she ever hear of or read the Book of Acts?
At the third church, the pastor donated out of his own pocket. Again, I was happy that there was a donation.
At the fourth church, I was told the pastor had gone for a jog. I waited outside. While waiting, I related the story to several coming from and going into the church. One lady was very leery, but did give me two bucks.
As I shook hands with the woman, the pastor came jogging in. There were several people milling about as I approached the pastor. I was grateful that some had pitched in and was excited as I related to this pastor the story of the couple. I told him I was going to various churches to get help from them. I also related to him of the disheartening attitude of some in the church. He listened and then beckoned with his index finger to come inside. I followed him. My excitement only rose as I thought that some still listened to and obeyed God. I believed I was going to get further help for this couple. WRONG! As soon as he got me inside, he started screaming at me. He went on and on, in a derogatory manner, of how so many people off the streets, like me came to him begging for money. "Do you think I'm going to take money from my charities and give them to you?" He ranted on and on. The more he did, the worse he got. I must say, though I knew through my learning of how it is with today's church, I was still shocked and could not speak for his screaming. He then threatened to call the police. After the third time of threatening to call the police, I told him to go right ahead. We stood looking at each other and he started to usher me to the door. When I got outside, I finally found something substantial to say. I turned around, looked him in the eyes and told him that he had anti-christ spirit in him and he didn't even know it. He didn't say a word. I didn't find this experience enjoyable but I knew that what was shown to me must be confirmed.
A little after 5p I started back to find this couple. It would soon be getting dark. I scoured every nook and cranny along the interstate but couldn't find them. I stopped off at a truck stop that they might have visited. I asked about them and was told that they were there and that they had asked about me. I kept on for 70 miles until I came to the next town. I stopped in at several churches and shelters to see if they were there. I looked around for about an hour. They must have found a ride because I never met up with this couple. The next day, I returned the $35.00 to the donors.
Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
On denominations: How can we be of 'one mind' and 'one accord' with thousands of denominations all "teaching" their "own brand of doctrine" which has nothing at all to do with God and Heaven.
When one points out the following: BE OF ONE MIND AND ACCORD; Philippians 2:2-5, 1Corinthians 12:25-26, the teachers/preachers/etc. will tell you that it applies to someone else's "church".
Lord Jesus Christ, Himself Desires to Teach you: John 5:39-40
How to arrive at nothing but TRUTH: seek only Him 24/07.
If one understands the Day of Visitation, one will understand you don't have to die and then "go to Heaven"; Heaven is here, now and upon us. God is pouring His Spirit upon ALL FLESH. It's up to each individual to listen and learn; while here on earth. It's that simple! Joel 2:28 Act 2:17
-Revelations 18:4
I'm a woman, in my early fifties…
I have never been against churches; just indifferent. I never felt they were important, at all. But, I now understand that these places are not the way to go because they do all things the exact opposite of what God desires.
A few days after I first realized and believed God manifested Himself as a Man, Lord Jesus Christ, people were telling me I had to go find a church. Though I was just as indifferent to churches as it gets, (not hostile), I realized the only reason I really wanted to find a church was to testify to them as to what's really going on with this world and today's church; false wars, false worship etc. etc. My longing was for all of us to realize this: it is futile to look to and depend on mankind for anything what-so-ever. Look to God for all of your spiritual teaching. By the way, we can't even blink an eye without God.
The first church I chose was a Baptist church. At the time, through watching news and listening to those around me, I realized Terri (Schiavo’s) ordeal didn't register much at all with many Christians locally and nation-wide. I wanted to understand why there was this incredible deficit of understanding and compassion? I wanted to give them information on what really happened to Terri (Schiavo).
When this particular pastor and I first met, this is what he said to me: "if you have any problems at all, don't come to me. I'm not that kind of pastor." I was not shocked but I was still amazed.
I decided to listen to one of his sermons. He sure sounded good and moved on the stage well. He taught his congregation typical false teachings; pre-trib rapture, going to war in God's Name, etc., etc. and they clung to every word.
Later on, I dropped off Scripture refuting everything he taught to "his" sheep. One of his Bible teachers accepted the verses; the pastor wasn't in.
A few days later, I received a phone call from the pastor. He told me that "if I ever set foot on his property, ("his" church), he would call the police and have me arrested. That I was going against his doctrine."
These experiences with the 1st church were just a small beginning.
I came across a couple walking down an interstate each pushing a mountain bike with a large 'basket on wheels' filled with possessions. On the back of the second basket was a huge cardboard sign that read Hope in Jesus. I u-turned for two reasons.
#1 These two people were obviously stranded.
#2 I was curious because of their sign.
I found out after speaking with them that their van's motor had burned out. They were in their mid-sixties, had eight bucks to their name and the wife was ill. They were walking to Ca. I wanted to assist them and I decided to do this exactly as the early Christians in the Book of Acts would have done.
I would go into town to visit various churches and tell each the entire story of this couple not leaving out a detail. I would then ask for donations to give to this couple. I also decided not to tell this couple what I'd be doing but that I would definitely be back to see them. I suggested to them, that in the meantime, they might write on their sign, 'COULD USE A RIDE'. They told me they would do that. I gave to them what I had in my wallet. I was not working at the time. The only reason I mention this is not because I want to be thought of as "wow" isn't she great! But only to illustrate that I put into practice what I've learned from God. I really cringe to think I'd ever resort to bragging. Matthew 6:3-4.
Here the results of searching for God's Called out people:
The first church, quite a large church, donated out of petty cash. I was happy that they did donate!
At the second church, the secretary asked me if I was a member of their church. I told I was not. She refused my request without consulting with the pastor. I asked her if she would please call the pastor. She stated that he was unavailable. I asked her if she would please donate to help this couple. She refused. She then asked me: "what if you return to these people and they're not there? I simply told her : I'll bring back your money to you. She refused for the final time. I told her as I was leaving that it was people like her and her church that cause many to run away from God. And did she ever hear of or read the Book of Acts?
At the third church, the pastor donated out of his own pocket. Again, I was happy that there was a donation.
At the fourth church, I was told the pastor had gone for a jog. I waited outside. While waiting, I related the story to several coming from and going into the church. One lady was very leery, but did give me two bucks.
As I shook hands with the woman, the pastor came jogging in. There were several people milling about as I approached the pastor. I was grateful that some had pitched in and was excited as I related to this pastor the story of the couple. I told him I was going to various churches to get help from them. I also related to him of the disheartening attitude of some in the church. He listened and then beckoned with his index finger to come inside. I followed him. My excitement only rose as I thought that some still listened to and obeyed God. I believed I was going to get further help for this couple. WRONG! As soon as he got me inside, he started screaming at me. He went on and on, in a derogatory manner, of how so many people off the streets, like me came to him begging for money. "Do you think I'm going to take money from my charities and give them to you?" He ranted on and on. The more he did, the worse he got. I must say, though I knew through my learning of how it is with today's church, I was still shocked and could not speak for his screaming. He then threatened to call the police. After the third time of threatening to call the police, I told him to go right ahead. We stood looking at each other and he started to usher me to the door. When I got outside, I finally found something substantial to say. I turned around, looked him in the eyes and told him that he had anti-christ spirit in him and he didn't even know it. He didn't say a word. I didn't find this experience enjoyable but I knew that what was shown to me must be confirmed.
A little after 5p I started back to find this couple. It would soon be getting dark. I scoured every nook and cranny along the interstate but couldn't find them. I stopped off at a truck stop that they might have visited. I asked about them and was told that they were there and that they had asked about me. I kept on for 70 miles until I came to the next town. I stopped in at several churches and shelters to see if they were there. I looked around for about an hour. They must have found a ride because I never met up with this couple. The next day, I returned the $35.00 to the donors.
Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
On denominations: How can we be of 'one mind' and 'one accord' with thousands of denominations all "teaching" their "own brand of doctrine" which has nothing at all to do with God and Heaven.
When one points out the following: BE OF ONE MIND AND ACCORD; Philippians 2:2-5, 1Corinthians 12:25-26, the teachers/preachers/etc. will tell you that it applies to someone else's "church".
Lord Jesus Christ, Himself Desires to Teach you: John 5:39-40
How to arrive at nothing but TRUTH: seek only Him 24/07.
If one understands the Day of Visitation, one will understand you don't have to die and then "go to Heaven"; Heaven is here, now and upon us. God is pouring His Spirit upon ALL FLESH. It's up to each individual to listen and learn; while here on earth. It's that simple! Joel 2:28 Act 2:17
Don't stop reading now. Have you noticed that Katherine's feelings aren't anything unusual? Dealing with problems of this nature aren't unusual for pastors and church staff members either! My heart goes out to Katherine, but there's probably more to this story than we're told.
In a recent article titled “My Disappointment With Mainstream Churches”, Katherine quoted Revelation 18:4
While she said she had never been against churches, just indifferent, she went on to describe how she felt that churches do all things, “the exact opposite of what God desires.”
This was an amazing conclusion, considering Katherine had never been actively involved in any church or knowledgeable enough about the scriptures to really know what God desires in the first place.
Her disappointment in the church kindled Katherine’s desire to learn directly from God, “and from Him only.” There came a time in her life when she learned that God manifested Himself in human form as the Lord Jesus Christ. What she doesn’t say, though, is that merely recognizing who Jesus was in New Testament times does not in itself mean salvation. How do I know that? The demons recognized who Jesus was at Gedara but they certainly weren’t saved. But we’ll give Katherine a break here and say for sake of argument that she met Jesus as her savior.
People began telling her she needed a church. I wish they told her why she needed a church. Katherine felt the only reason she needed a church was so that she could tell it what was really going on in the world in relation to churches, that is false wars, false worship and so forth. Instead of teaching people to focus on men and depend on them, it was better to have them look to God for spiritual teaching.
No doubt there are others that feel this way. Such a goal is admirable, though it doesn’t completely line up with the Bible. By that, I mean that Christ Himself commissioned his church to teach all nations to observe all things he commanded them. Matthew 28:18-20
The first church Katherine approached was a Baptist church. I don’t consider myself an expert on many denominations, but I do know a little about Baptists. After reading Katherine’s letter, I felt the Lord leading me to address this issue that many churches and pastors face each day. Bible school doesn’t really prepare a minister for this type of encounter; experience and the principles of God’s Word prepare the minister.
It seems the trigger to the events that followed was the tragic death of Terri Schiavo. Katherine couldn’t understand why everyone didn’t know all about the life and death struggles of this young lady. So Katherine's efforts began at a Baptist church. It seemed to her that there was no understanding or compassion from the Christian community.
She wanted to give this Baptist church, “information on what really happened to Terri.”
The Pastor’s first response was, "if you have any problems at all, don't come to me. I'm not that kind of pastor."
This response both shocked and amazed Katherine. I’m not sure what the Pastor meant by his comment, but I want you to keep something in mind. There are two sides to every story. That Pastor probably said more than what Katherine wrote and she may have heard only what she “wanted” to hear. In the Pastor’s defense, his ministry is getting out the gospel, making disciples of the saved and feeding the sheep. He’s the Pastor of the church. As easy as it is to take up a cause like Terri Schiavo, God has other plans for pastors. It’s a delicate balance, but Pastor’s must carefully choose their priorities. Had Katherine been a member of this pastor’s church, perhaps she would have better understood the reason this pastor said what he did. Either way, it would be interestting to hear the whole conversation.
In an apparent effort to know the pastor better, she listened to one of his sermons. That’s almost like reading one verse of Scripture and judging the entire Bible by it. Still, the pastor sounded good and the people paid attention. In spite of a good “stage presence”, the pastor supposedly taught the typical false teaching of a pre-trib rapture and going to war in God’s Name. Our subject was disappointed in the errors of the message.
The church at Thessalonica knew a rapture would take place before the Tribulation, as did many other Christians of the time. As far as going to war in God’s name, if this refers to God’s command to drive out the inhabitants of Canaan, this was war in God’s name. Remember the sword of the Lord and of Gideon? Katherine did a great job of condemning this pastor without really explaining herself or what he meant in context. She isn’t the first person to do this. Nor will she be the last.
More of this notion will be explained in future planned articles on the Book of Revelation.
Are you catching a glimpse of what could be the real problem here? Was the pastor the real problem or was she mad at God?
Not long after that, Katherine dropped off Scriptures refuting everything the pastor taught. Since we don’t know the context and we don’t know what verses she dropped off, it becomes almost impossible to come to a conclusion here. It would be my joy to hear the other side of the story.
A few days later, the pastor called Katherine and told her not to return to his church because she was going against his doctrine. Part of the pastor’s job is to protect his sheep from spiritual predators. If Katherine was a church member, and she spread heresy that was contrary to sound bible doctrine, she would have been a candidate for church action. There also seem to be other issues that she has raised that might result in exclusion of herself and harm to the church. Read 1 Corinthians 5. God made the rules here, not me or the church, but these rules were given to protect the church and its members!
John gave good advice when he told us to test the spirits and see if they were really of God. Many people have been fooled, perhaps even Katherine.
If this wasn’t enough, Katherine came across a stranded couple on the interstate. The couple was in their mid-sixties, had eight dollars to their name, the wife was ill and they had decided to walk to California. She wanted to help them, “exactly as the early Christians in the Book of Acts would have done.” Yet, she doesn’t explain in any more detail exactly what she meant by that statement.
To her, the best solution was a trip into town coupled with an appeal for help to all the local churches. Surely someone would donate money to help this needy couple! She already gave the couple all the money she had in her pocket. Why wouldn’t someone else give too?
The first church she approached donated out of petty cash an undisclosed amount of money. Katherine was glad this large church cared enough to help.
A second church was approached. When the church secretary found out Katherine wasn’t a member of that church, she refused her request for help without consulting the pastor. Further pleas were ignored. The secretary asked, “What if you return to these people and they’re not there?” Then the secretary turned her down again.
I understand what the secretary was really saying, according to Katherine, but there was probably a better way to handle this situation. The secretary’s lack of action may not have been based on neither hearing of nor reading the Book of Acts, as charged by Katherine.
A third church’s pastor donated money out of his own pocket.
Katherine’s experience at a fourth church resulted in a few dollars given by a woman at the church. That’s when the pastor came into the picture.. She told the pastor the story about the elderly couple and how she approached other churches seeking help for them.
Katherine went into the office with the pastor, hoping God had spoken to his heart and he would help.
“As soon as he got me inside, he started screaming at me…He went on and on, in a derogatory manner, of how so many people off the streets, like me came to him begging for money.”
She was shocked into speechlessness! After reportedly ranting about this issue for some time, the pastor threatened to call the police. After the third threat to do this, Katherine invited him to go ahead and call the police.
“I turned around, looked him in the eyes and told him that he had anti-christ spirit in him and he didn’t even know it.”
Wow! I don’t normally take space on this website to deal with angry letters that appear on the internet. However, Katherine brings out the mindset (for want of a better term) of countless others. My own work in the full time ministry for nearly twenty years exposed me to many people who came in off the streets asking for money. Some of those same people made a good living going from church to church and asking for money. The problem was so rampant in the area that records had to be kept because these people would return after a few months and ask for help again. They wanted the church to give them money for nearly anything and everything. In fact, they wanted the church to give them things that not even the staff members received from their own churches! Many church members outside of church leadership circles know little about the many people who make a living doing these things. Nobody knows how many of them are out there or who they are. Now that you know this, do you understand a little more about why the pastor replied as he did?
This doesn’t excuse the behavior of the pastor but it does help us understand a little more about his reaction.
In addition to that, the pastor doesn’t have unlimited authority within a church. Some of his “liberty” is limited by the church constitution or by guidelines discussed in church business meetings. Without the approval of the entire church, pastors cannot and should not be given “blank checks”. In some cases, it takes time for church members and leadership to look at the issues involved in a situation before deciding how the church can best help a person in need. God's Word says there is wisdom in a multitude of counsel.
This is why most churches will gladly help people, but not by giving them cash. Churches buy groceries, gas for the car, prescriptions, help pay rent or other bills, or provide a place to stay and things like that. That way they know the church’s money is really going to help meet the needs of people, even if they aren’t members of that local church.
It seems there was probably more to this conversation that what was reported. The pastor had the church to think about, not just Katherine or an elderly couple he had never seen.
What is the spirit of antichrist? Is it a lack of love or a failure to show compassion when it’s needed the most? Is it threatening to call the police instead of helping someone? Is it ranting against someone you don’t agree with?
This is where we live. Not everyone is going to like the answer God gives to these questions but that doesn’t change His answer.
According to John, the spirit of antichrist is denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Read it for yourself in 1 John 4:1-3. Therefore, Katherine’s comments about this pastor were nothing more than her own opinion and weren’t based on scripture.
After all these events, Katherine returned to the spot she left the couple. She earlier told them to wait there until she returned. The couple was gone. Even though she drove seventy miles to find them, her efforts were fruitless.
Not knowing what else to do for them, Katherine retraced her steps and returned the $35.00 she collected. It’s rare to find such honesty in people today.
But wait a minute! The situation the church secretary brought up earlier that day is exactly what happened. God apparently met the need of this older couple without Katherine’s valiant efforts. Perhaps God had another plan in the works!
Rather than getting angry about it, perhaps Katherine should praise the Lord who met the need! It was great that she did all she could to help these people, because God doesn’t always perform mighty miracles like beaming them to California. Our Lord uses people like you and me..and yes, Katherine. In that process, He tries teaching all people involved an important lesson of life. Because I’m not God, I don’t have all the answers. It’s a mystery to me how He solved his problem and why He did it the way He did. I’m just glad more than one person did what they could do to help! This couple obviously got a ride.
Is this the best place to stop? I wish Katherine stopped there, but she didn’t. From here, she attempts teaching a bible lesson about the heretical teachings of all denominations.
She jumps to Revelation 17:5 and Mystery Babylon in an apparent effort to describe denominations today. The only problem with that is that we are not in the Tribulation and Mystery Babylon isn’t here yet. Nor are churches the abominations of the earth. This subject will find discussion in our series on Revelation, still in the works at this writing.
Notice what Katherine wrote about denominations.
“On denominations: How can we be of ‘one mind’ and in ‘one accord’ with thousands of denominations all ‘teaching’ their ‘own brand of doctrine which has nothing at all to do with God and Heaven?”
That’s a great question! Part of the answer lies in our article on doctrine. Are you ready for the other part?
Where does the Bible teach or even hint that we should be of one mind with thousands of denominations? Where does the Bible say we are stuck, teaching our own brand of doctrine that has nothing to do with God and Heaven? Yes, there are some that believe churches do just that. Let’s forget about them for a moment and focus our attention on what God says and a little spiritual common sense.
Katherine calls our attention to Philippians 2:2-5.
“Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.”
What has this got to do with denominations? A proper understanding of some basics is vital to understanding scripture. Who is this letter written to? We know it was the church at Philippi because it was also written to pastors or bishops and deacons. Paul wrote to church members at the local and visible church in the sky with invisible pastors and invisible church members. We’ll also discuss this in detail when we publish our articles on the church.
Either way, this wasn’t a letter to all denominations.
No church has the liberty to teach its own brand of doctrines. Liberty is granted on how the Bible is taught or presented and when and where, but content of the doctrine itself is limited by God Himself in His word.
Katherine also points us to 1 Corinthians 12:25-26.
“That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.”
Truer words were never written. Who did Paul write them to? He wrote to the church of God at Corinth. Was this advice for Corinth or for some kind of universal church? While those statements are true for any church, Paul wrote to a local and visible church and not to a denomination.
Let’s close with John 5:39-40.
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
Katherine wrote, in reference to the above verse, that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself desires to teach us. While it’s true the Lord wants to teach us, the above verses have nothing to do with that. Those verses speak of eternal life found, not in a teaching, but in the person of Christ. For a better understanding, look at some other verses John wrote in 1 John 5:11-13. Ev
John’s advice was also to test the spirits. That’s what Katherine and those who think like her should do at their earliest convenience.
This has been a small taste of how the religious world thinks. Perhaps you now have a better idea of why I’m so concerned that we use an accurate bible. hurch should follow this pattern, but Paul didn’t write to that big and invisible church in the sky with invisible
While she said she had never been against churches, just indifferent, she went on to describe how she felt that churches do all things, “the exact opposite of what God desires.”
This was an amazing conclusion, considering Katherine had never been actively involved in any church or knowledgeable enough about the scriptures to really know what God desires in the first place.
Her disappointment in the church kindled Katherine’s desire to learn directly from God, “and from Him only.” There came a time in her life when she learned that God manifested Himself in human form as the Lord Jesus Christ. What she doesn’t say, though, is that merely recognizing who Jesus was in New Testament times does not in itself mean salvation. How do I know that? The demons recognized who Jesus was at Gedara but they certainly weren’t saved. But we’ll give Katherine a break here and say for sake of argument that she met Jesus as her savior.
People began telling her she needed a church. I wish they told her why she needed a church. Katherine felt the only reason she needed a church was so that she could tell it what was really going on in the world in relation to churches, that is false wars, false worship and so forth. Instead of teaching people to focus on men and depend on them, it was better to have them look to God for spiritual teaching.
No doubt there are others that feel this way. Such a goal is admirable, though it doesn’t completely line up with the Bible. By that, I mean that Christ Himself commissioned his church to teach all nations to observe all things he commanded them. Matthew 28:18-20
The first church Katherine approached was a Baptist church. I don’t consider myself an expert on many denominations, but I do know a little about Baptists. After reading Katherine’s letter, I felt the Lord leading me to address this issue that many churches and pastors face each day. Bible school doesn’t really prepare a minister for this type of encounter; experience and the principles of God’s Word prepare the minister.
It seems the trigger to the events that followed was the tragic death of Terri Schiavo. Katherine couldn’t understand why everyone didn’t know all about the life and death struggles of this young lady. So Katherine's efforts began at a Baptist church. It seemed to her that there was no understanding or compassion from the Christian community.
She wanted to give this Baptist church, “information on what really happened to Terri.”
The Pastor’s first response was, "if you have any problems at all, don't come to me. I'm not that kind of pastor."
This response both shocked and amazed Katherine. I’m not sure what the Pastor meant by his comment, but I want you to keep something in mind. There are two sides to every story. That Pastor probably said more than what Katherine wrote and she may have heard only what she “wanted” to hear. In the Pastor’s defense, his ministry is getting out the gospel, making disciples of the saved and feeding the sheep. He’s the Pastor of the church. As easy as it is to take up a cause like Terri Schiavo, God has other plans for pastors. It’s a delicate balance, but Pastor’s must carefully choose their priorities. Had Katherine been a member of this pastor’s church, perhaps she would have better understood the reason this pastor said what he did. Either way, it would be interestting to hear the whole conversation.
In an apparent effort to know the pastor better, she listened to one of his sermons. That’s almost like reading one verse of Scripture and judging the entire Bible by it. Still, the pastor sounded good and the people paid attention. In spite of a good “stage presence”, the pastor supposedly taught the typical false teaching of a pre-trib rapture and going to war in God’s Name. Our subject was disappointed in the errors of the message.
The church at Thessalonica knew a rapture would take place before the Tribulation, as did many other Christians of the time. As far as going to war in God’s name, if this refers to God’s command to drive out the inhabitants of Canaan, this was war in God’s name. Remember the sword of the Lord and of Gideon? Katherine did a great job of condemning this pastor without really explaining herself or what he meant in context. She isn’t the first person to do this. Nor will she be the last.
More of this notion will be explained in future planned articles on the Book of Revelation.
Are you catching a glimpse of what could be the real problem here? Was the pastor the real problem or was she mad at God?
Not long after that, Katherine dropped off Scriptures refuting everything the pastor taught. Since we don’t know the context and we don’t know what verses she dropped off, it becomes almost impossible to come to a conclusion here. It would be my joy to hear the other side of the story.
A few days later, the pastor called Katherine and told her not to return to his church because she was going against his doctrine. Part of the pastor’s job is to protect his sheep from spiritual predators. If Katherine was a church member, and she spread heresy that was contrary to sound bible doctrine, she would have been a candidate for church action. There also seem to be other issues that she has raised that might result in exclusion of herself and harm to the church. Read 1 Corinthians 5. God made the rules here, not me or the church, but these rules were given to protect the church and its members!
John gave good advice when he told us to test the spirits and see if they were really of God. Many people have been fooled, perhaps even Katherine.
If this wasn’t enough, Katherine came across a stranded couple on the interstate. The couple was in their mid-sixties, had eight dollars to their name, the wife was ill and they had decided to walk to California. She wanted to help them, “exactly as the early Christians in the Book of Acts would have done.” Yet, she doesn’t explain in any more detail exactly what she meant by that statement.
To her, the best solution was a trip into town coupled with an appeal for help to all the local churches. Surely someone would donate money to help this needy couple! She already gave the couple all the money she had in her pocket. Why wouldn’t someone else give too?
The first church she approached donated out of petty cash an undisclosed amount of money. Katherine was glad this large church cared enough to help.
A second church was approached. When the church secretary found out Katherine wasn’t a member of that church, she refused her request for help without consulting the pastor. Further pleas were ignored. The secretary asked, “What if you return to these people and they’re not there?” Then the secretary turned her down again.
I understand what the secretary was really saying, according to Katherine, but there was probably a better way to handle this situation. The secretary’s lack of action may not have been based on neither hearing of nor reading the Book of Acts, as charged by Katherine.
A third church’s pastor donated money out of his own pocket.
Katherine’s experience at a fourth church resulted in a few dollars given by a woman at the church. That’s when the pastor came into the picture.. She told the pastor the story about the elderly couple and how she approached other churches seeking help for them.
Katherine went into the office with the pastor, hoping God had spoken to his heart and he would help.
“As soon as he got me inside, he started screaming at me…He went on and on, in a derogatory manner, of how so many people off the streets, like me came to him begging for money.”
She was shocked into speechlessness! After reportedly ranting about this issue for some time, the pastor threatened to call the police. After the third threat to do this, Katherine invited him to go ahead and call the police.
“I turned around, looked him in the eyes and told him that he had anti-christ spirit in him and he didn’t even know it.”
Wow! I don’t normally take space on this website to deal with angry letters that appear on the internet. However, Katherine brings out the mindset (for want of a better term) of countless others. My own work in the full time ministry for nearly twenty years exposed me to many people who came in off the streets asking for money. Some of those same people made a good living going from church to church and asking for money. The problem was so rampant in the area that records had to be kept because these people would return after a few months and ask for help again. They wanted the church to give them money for nearly anything and everything. In fact, they wanted the church to give them things that not even the staff members received from their own churches! Many church members outside of church leadership circles know little about the many people who make a living doing these things. Nobody knows how many of them are out there or who they are. Now that you know this, do you understand a little more about why the pastor replied as he did?
This doesn’t excuse the behavior of the pastor but it does help us understand a little more about his reaction.
In addition to that, the pastor doesn’t have unlimited authority within a church. Some of his “liberty” is limited by the church constitution or by guidelines discussed in church business meetings. Without the approval of the entire church, pastors cannot and should not be given “blank checks”. In some cases, it takes time for church members and leadership to look at the issues involved in a situation before deciding how the church can best help a person in need. God's Word says there is wisdom in a multitude of counsel.
This is why most churches will gladly help people, but not by giving them cash. Churches buy groceries, gas for the car, prescriptions, help pay rent or other bills, or provide a place to stay and things like that. That way they know the church’s money is really going to help meet the needs of people, even if they aren’t members of that local church.
It seems there was probably more to this conversation that what was reported. The pastor had the church to think about, not just Katherine or an elderly couple he had never seen.
What is the spirit of antichrist? Is it a lack of love or a failure to show compassion when it’s needed the most? Is it threatening to call the police instead of helping someone? Is it ranting against someone you don’t agree with?
This is where we live. Not everyone is going to like the answer God gives to these questions but that doesn’t change His answer.
According to John, the spirit of antichrist is denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Read it for yourself in 1 John 4:1-3. Therefore, Katherine’s comments about this pastor were nothing more than her own opinion and weren’t based on scripture.
After all these events, Katherine returned to the spot she left the couple. She earlier told them to wait there until she returned. The couple was gone. Even though she drove seventy miles to find them, her efforts were fruitless.
Not knowing what else to do for them, Katherine retraced her steps and returned the $35.00 she collected. It’s rare to find such honesty in people today.
But wait a minute! The situation the church secretary brought up earlier that day is exactly what happened. God apparently met the need of this older couple without Katherine’s valiant efforts. Perhaps God had another plan in the works!
Rather than getting angry about it, perhaps Katherine should praise the Lord who met the need! It was great that she did all she could to help these people, because God doesn’t always perform mighty miracles like beaming them to California. Our Lord uses people like you and me..and yes, Katherine. In that process, He tries teaching all people involved an important lesson of life. Because I’m not God, I don’t have all the answers. It’s a mystery to me how He solved his problem and why He did it the way He did. I’m just glad more than one person did what they could do to help! This couple obviously got a ride.
Is this the best place to stop? I wish Katherine stopped there, but she didn’t. From here, she attempts teaching a bible lesson about the heretical teachings of all denominations.
She jumps to Revelation 17:5 and Mystery Babylon in an apparent effort to describe denominations today. The only problem with that is that we are not in the Tribulation and Mystery Babylon isn’t here yet. Nor are churches the abominations of the earth. This subject will find discussion in our series on Revelation, still in the works at this writing.
Notice what Katherine wrote about denominations.
“On denominations: How can we be of ‘one mind’ and in ‘one accord’ with thousands of denominations all ‘teaching’ their ‘own brand of doctrine which has nothing at all to do with God and Heaven?”
That’s a great question! Part of the answer lies in our article on doctrine. Are you ready for the other part?
Where does the Bible teach or even hint that we should be of one mind with thousands of denominations? Where does the Bible say we are stuck, teaching our own brand of doctrine that has nothing to do with God and Heaven? Yes, there are some that believe churches do just that. Let’s forget about them for a moment and focus our attention on what God says and a little spiritual common sense.
Katherine calls our attention to Philippians 2:2-5.
“Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.”
What has this got to do with denominations? A proper understanding of some basics is vital to understanding scripture. Who is this letter written to? We know it was the church at Philippi because it was also written to pastors or bishops and deacons. Paul wrote to church members at the local and visible church in the sky with invisible pastors and invisible church members. We’ll also discuss this in detail when we publish our articles on the church.
Either way, this wasn’t a letter to all denominations.
No church has the liberty to teach its own brand of doctrines. Liberty is granted on how the Bible is taught or presented and when and where, but content of the doctrine itself is limited by God Himself in His word.
Katherine also points us to 1 Corinthians 12:25-26.
“That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.”
Truer words were never written. Who did Paul write them to? He wrote to the church of God at Corinth. Was this advice for Corinth or for some kind of universal church? While those statements are true for any church, Paul wrote to a local and visible church and not to a denomination.
Let’s close with John 5:39-40.
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
Katherine wrote, in reference to the above verse, that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself desires to teach us. While it’s true the Lord wants to teach us, the above verses have nothing to do with that. Those verses speak of eternal life found, not in a teaching, but in the person of Christ. For a better understanding, look at some other verses John wrote in 1 John 5:11-13. Ev
John’s advice was also to test the spirits. That’s what Katherine and those who think like her should do at their earliest convenience.
This has been a small taste of how the religious world thinks. Perhaps you now have a better idea of why I’m so concerned that we use an accurate bible. hurch should follow this pattern, but Paul didn’t write to that big and invisible church in the sky with invisible
